Is That Legal?

I don't know about hell being a real place. If it is real, I agree with Ted :)
Now we'll wait for similar to Prophet cartoon controversy to start

Seems like everyone I would want to spend eternity with is in Hell: Gandhi, Carl Sagan, Warren Zevon, Harpo Marx. If Heaven is full of sanctimonious boobs like Ted Haggard, then I'll pass.

No, no, no. Ted will not go to hell. You see, Ted can go sin by having sex with a gay male prostitute while sinning by doing drugs and then still go to heaven. All he has to do is ask for forgiveness after the fact, and he is okay.

So, Ghandi leads a morally correct life and helps millions of people but does not know Jesus, so is condemned to hell for all eternity.

Ted goes down on a male prostitute and then licks drugs, paid for by Bible thumping rubes, off his balls while condemning Clinton for not being able to suppress his earthly desires, but then asks for forgiveness and so gets to go to heaven and bask in the love of our Lord.

Ghandi, a good man, goes to hell.

Ted, a hypocrite, drug addict and john for male prostitutes, goes to Heaven.

Why can't you understand this?

Ted goes down on a male prostitute and then licks drugs, paid for by Bible thumping rubes, off his balls while condemning Clinton for not being able to suppress his earthly desires, but then asks for forgiveness and so gets to go to heaven and bask in the love of our Lord.

Ghandi, a good man, goes to hell.

Ted, a hypocrite, drug addict and john for male prostitutes, goes to Heaven.

Why can't you understand this?

Posted by: gttim at November 3, 2006 12:38 PM

Hey, Jack Chick needs to do a pamphlet on this one. I think he should let R. Crumb do the illustrations, tho'.

I seem to remember that Ghandi said he was a Hindi a Christian a Buddist and a Jew.

So why is he in hell and furthermore why is he talking to Ted?

Mother Theresa is there, too. All Catholics are, according to their "thinking".

You guys are trying to paint Haggard as some hard-core fundamentalist a la Jimmy Swaggart, and it just isn't the case. I challenge you to find me ONE instance of him saying that gays are going to hell. The only thing I can ever remember him saying about Bill Clinton is that Clinton was a fellow evangelical Christian. He's very publicly spoken out about the threat of global warming and against torture.

So, how about you anti-Christian fundamentalists cite chapter and verse for me on some of this stuff?

Ghandi is burning in Hell for all eternity, George Bush is going to heaven.
Gives you a headache thinking about it, doesn't it?

Yo Reuben? Pay attention. He said GHANDI'S IN HELL. He's about halfway across the globe right of Swaggart.

Reuben, you are sorely mistaken. Ted has made a career out of esposuing his anti-gay bigotry. Quit being lazy and do a Google search and you'll find lots of examples. But here's one example for you--video of Haggard preaching about the evils of homosexuality, from the recent documentary Jesus Camp:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6rSjrBhUIA&eurl=

And check out Metafilter for a huge discussion on the topic of Haggard, where you'll find lots more examples of Haggard's wacky beliefs about the evils of homosexuality:

http://www.metafilter.com/mefi/56002

And yes, I'm anti-fundamentalist and proud of it. The fundies have distorted true Christianity beyond all recognition, creating mega-rich mega-churches filled with false prophets who eagerly condemn others and obsess over gay marriage and ignore the things Jesus would really care about, like the sick, the poor, and the disenfranchised.

From Metafilter, re: fundamentalists:

That's all we hear and see--we don't see anyone putting their energy into feeding the poor or housing the homeless or anything--this crowd's time and energy is spent hating [homosexuals]. In those weekly meetings with Bush, did Haggard speak of expanding social programs? Of helping those whose lives were ruined in Katrina or Iraq? No. He's on record as being a free-market whatever, and a warmonger. Does Dobson or Robertson or Haggard or Falwell make Bush raise taxes to feed people? No. They make sure Plan B doesn't get released for years, and make sure all our overseas aid has abstinence rules attached. They make sure there's funding for their churches and orgs, not all orgs that help people. They push Bush and Congress to propose a Federal Amendment to make gays and lesbians second-class citizens--they do the same on the state level.

This guy had the ear of the WH and spent his time talking about gays instead of on Jesus things. This same guy is a closet case and meth freak. We judge them on their actions. They do harm to us daily, and I can't wait for the day that people can live without these "leaders."

He also had the ear of the entire media and did not ever use it to spread Jesus' teachings or words--he used it to make himself an even bigger player in politics. Render unto Caesar.

From today's L.A. Times:

"Though Haggard has spoken out on abortion and same-sex marriage from time to time, he is less fiery on those topics than many of his colleagues are. He has pushed, instead, for a broader concept of biblical values: He wants evangelicals to be more involved in protecting the environment and helping the poor.

"Haggard has not joined other evangelicals in campaigning against a Colorado initiative to provide domestic partnership benefits to same-sex couples. He also stood out among conservative preachers for publicly praising a 2003 Supreme Court decision that struck down a Texas anti-sodomy law."

What a dangerous fanatic.

By the way, here is what Haggard says on the youtube clip -- "we don't have to have a general assembly to decide what we think about homosexuality. It's written in the Bible." Such fiery anti-gay rhetoric! Shocking!

Again, I'm not the lazy one here; I've already looked for evidence of Haggard's calling gays evil or gay bashing. I can't find it. If you want me to take you seriously when you say that Ted Haggard "hates gays," produce some evidence.

Listen Haggard - if you go running down Ghandi, you're walking on the non-violent side of me.

Reuben, you quote the L.A. Times: "Though Haggard has spoken out on abortion and same-sex marriage from time to time, he is less fiery on those topics than many of his colleagues are."

Oh, I get it: Because he is LESS FIERY on those topics than the other fundies, that means he is not anti-gay! He only has spoken about same-sex marriage FROM TIME TO TIME, so clearly he's not anti-gay!

To anyone in the reality-based community, check out the video--and be sure to watch Haggard's directly addressing the camera at the end. Pretty creepy, especially in light of the recent bust for his hypocrisy.

Oh, and Reuben? I'm not your secretary. I already gave you the Metafilter link, which in turn links to several articles describing Haggard's anti-gay stances. If you want to keep your head in the sand, be my guest. You have 30 million fundies there to keep you company, sucker.

For anyone who's interested, here's a lengthy, in-depth look at Ted Haggard and his church, via Harper's (May 2005):

http://www.harpers.org/SoldiersOfChrist-20061103288348488.html#3-anchor

A few excerpts from the article so people can see that, despite Reuben's protests, Haggard really was a "hard-core fundamentalist"--note in particular his wanting to model his fundie churches in a way that would "harness the forces of free-market capitalism."

He was always on the lookout for spies. At the time, Colorado Springs was a small city split between the Air Force and the New Age, and the latter, Pastor Ted believed, worked for the devil. Pastor Ted soon began upsetting the devil's plans. He staked out gay bars, inviting men to come to his church; his whole congregation pitched itself into invisible battles with demonic forces, sometimes in front of public buildings. One day, while he was working in his garage, a woman who said she'd been sent by a witches' coven tried to stab Pastor Ted with a five-inch knife she pulled from a leg sheath; Pastor Ted wrestled the blade out of her hand. He let that story get around. He called the evil forces that dominated Colorado Springs—and every other metropolitan area in the country—“Control.”

Sometimes, he says, Control would call him late on Saturday night, threatening to kill him. “Any more impertinence out of you, Ted Haggard,” he claims Control once told him, “and there will be unrelenting pandemonium in this city.” No kidding! Pastor Ted hadn't come to Colorado Springs for his health; he had come to wage “spiritual war.”

He moved the church to a strip mall. There was a bar, a liquor store, New Life Church, a massage parlor. His congregation spilled out and blocked the other businesses. He set up chairs in the alley. He strung up a banner: SIEGE THIS CITY FOR ME, signed JESUS. He assigned everyone in the church names from the phone book they were to pray for. He sent teams to pray in front of the homes of supposed witches—in one month, ten out of fifteen of his targets put their houses on the market. His congregation “prayer-walked” nearly every street of the city.

*************

In Pastor Ted's book Dog Training, Fly Fishing, & Sharing Christ in the 21st Century, he describes the church he thinks good Christians want. “I want my finances in order, my kids trained, and my wife to love life. I want good friends who are a delight and who provide protection for my family and me should life become difficult someday . . . I don't want surprises, scandals, or secrets . . . I want stability and, at the same time, steady, forward movement. I want the church to help me live life well, not exhaust me with endless ‘worthwhile’ projects.” By “worthwhile projects” Ted means building funds and soup kitchens alike. It's not that he opposes these; it's just that he is sick of hearing about them and believes that other Christians are, too. He knows that for Christianity to prosper in the free market, it needs more than “moral values”—it needs customer value.

New Lifers, Pastor Ted writes with evident pride, “like the benefits, risks, and maybe above all, the excitement of a free-market society.” They like the stimulation of a new brand. “Have you ever switched your toothpaste brand, just for the fun of it?” Pastor Ted asks. Admit it, he insists. All the way home, you felt a “secret little thrill,” as excited questions ran through your mind: “Will it make my teeth whiter? My breath fresher?” This is the sensation Ted wants pastors to bring to the Christian experience. He believes it is time “to harness the forces of free-market capitalism in our ministry.” Once a pastor does that, his flock can start organizing itself according to each member's abilities and tastes.

Unfortunately, church by in large has gotten a bad rep because of the actions of a few people. And the media is quick to jump on these "stories." However, there REALLY ARE churches out there caring for the poor, the sick, the disenfranchised...churches who aren't in it to build a mega-churches or make a name for themselves. Does the media do stories on these churches? No! I think there is a lot more good happening than bad, but society doesn't want to see that. They would rather cast stones.

And so continues the downward spiral of people judging people who are no better or no worse than them. The Bible is offensive to those who don't believe it, as are those who preach it. You can't apologize for it. You CAN ask for help though, for things you know are not right in your life. And that's where Ted failed.

Jesus was about mercy and forgiveness. So should we be. We just need to learn our lessons from this, not expect people to be perfect, but also realize that some people should not be in the pulpit.

If Gandhi is hell, then a sane man should avoid "heaven". It would be packed solid with Inquisitors, Bruno burners, pedophile priest etc. If Gandhi is in hell those ruffians will show a certified copy of bible and pass into heaven. Who will live with such thugs??

Secondly, Gandhi and Buddha would soon convert any hell christians can conjure up, into a cool place envied by the "heaven" dwellers.