Is That Legal?

I've asked you nicely in the past not to give us links to Bob Jones, but no. Come on, it's like driving past an accident scene; you can't help but slow down and gawk.

This time I found this wonderful page about their IT facilities. The picture of the 1964 computer is especially nice. (FYI, that's not a computer from 1964; I'd say it's a GE process control processor from the early 90's.)

A legal question for you, professor:

Suppose someone chooses not to hire graduates from the following univeristies: Bob Jones University, Oral Roberts University, Lee University, or Liberty University (or any other fundamentalist-based schools)?

Is it illegal to discriminate against someone for employment purposes based on where they went to school, if such schools are of a certain religious class?

What if the reason for not wanting to hire graduates of these universities is, at least ostensibly, because the employer does not think these are good schools or that fundamentalist schools do not create graduates with a sufficient scope in the liberal arts to make them desirable employees?

What if the reason for not wanting to hire such graduates because the employer is sensitive to the possibility that at-work prosyletizing could create a hostile environment for other employees?

What if the reason is because the employer is an atheist and he doesn't want active Christians working for him?

One non-legal question: Are these schools any good in the academic sense? I suppose that depends on the school and the discipline.

I kow that Brigham Young is a great school in a number of disciplines. One of my favorite professors in my undergraduate years was a BYU gradaute who went on to get a PhD in Chinese Studies at Yale.

Any thoughts?

Declining to hire someone on the basis of their religion violates Title VII. One needn't prove discriminatory purpose in the way one must under the Equal Protection Clause; it would probably be sufficient for a plaintiff to show that an employer adopted a hiring rule with a significantly disparate impact unless the employer can show an important business purpose for the rule.

"I will not hire any graduate of a fundamentalist Christian college or university" strikes me--as a matter of instinct (I've not researched it)--as a dangerous proposition.

"I've had bad experiences with graduates of Bob Jones (or name some other) University and therefore won't hire them" strikes me--again, purely as a matter of instinct--as a policy that would be easier to defend in a Title VII case.

Not sure about the concern-for-at-work-proselytizing case you hypothesize. The employer's ability to terminate a worker who in fact engages in that behavior would tend to suggest that the blanket rule is unnecessary and motivated by animus.

One of the brightest guys in my Yale Law School class was a BYU graduate.

My first impulse is to believe that an accredited school, regardless of its religious affiliation--or the amount of impact such an affiliation has on curriculum and teaching philosophies (which is really what largely separates schools such as Duke and American, from BJ and Oral Roberts, I would think)--would produce competent physical and social scientists and mathematicians. When it comes to natural sciences, I tend to believe that that whole antagonism towards evolution thing must get in the way.

I went to Bob Jones Biology department website and was surprised (or maybe not) by the statement I found there that "While most secular biologists are committed to evolution as the basic principle of biolgy, Bob Jones University trains Christian scientists who see the living world indelibly marked with the fingerprints of a God of limitless wisdom and power."

That was interesting. Where do you get a job after that?

Here, maybe?

In re: Lincoln Muller, er, Mullen... What does it matter if he lies, as long as he hates gays, abortionists, and people who believe in evolution? In fact, it's probably a feature, not a bug, as they say.

K, while I'm sure it's fun for you to malign people for character flaws you wish they had, Lincoln Mullen is a real person, and you don't know that person. From his blog, he seems to be a pretty ordinary college student with an interest in biking, church history, and, yes, getting to know Christ. Be nice.

For the record, I'm sure that Lincoln Mullen is a perfectly fine fellow. I just thought what he was quoted as saying in the BJU newspaper was funny.

Although there is a great deal of anti-intellectualism at fundamentalist institutions, it would be a mistake to think that all graduates are poor scholars, or poor thinkers, or inadequate employees. Discrimination would be shortsighted.

Just to illustrate, I graduated from a fundamentalist Protestant (sorry, "evangelical"!) liberal-arts college (not BJU) and then went on to earn a Ph.D. in History. My roommate graduated with me and earned a Ph.D. in organic chemistry and now works as a research chemist for Albany Molecular, maker of Allegra. A friend of mine graduated a year before me and now is a professor of religious studies at Vanderbilt.

My experience there, and my fundamentalist upbringing, is to this day very useful in my own scholarship (I study religious and political extremism from the sixteenth century to the present). If not for my background, I would not be able to do the work I do. Am I a fundamentalist today? No--I think the fundamentalist movement has been destructive of authentic historic Christianity.

But, on a side note, BJU DOES have a strange student code. I have read it--they actually (used to?) state in the handbook that a student must sleep in between the sheets! If you sleep on the sofa, I guess, DEMERITS FOR YOU.

David, et al... "... an interest in biking, church history, and, yes, getting to know Christ." Well, one out of three ain't bad.

True, we don't know that he hates all the right people. But I'm sure it's not for lack of instruction. I hope that he manages to learn right from wrong, in spite of his proper schooling.

And who says the progressive left has political troubles reaching out to regular church goers...

Wow -- what they say is true! People really do hate other people that they've never met and never had a conversation with! I never realized intolerance was so en vogue.

(by the way, I'm not referencing the folks at BJU with my unnecessarily sarcastic remarks)

While there are foolish extremist in every movement (including ones you may agree with), those outliers should never be the way thinking people label the entire movement and those even tangentially associated with it. That, of course, doesn't require automatic redemption. It does, however, require avoiding snap judgements.

Finally, please note that I specifically chastise "foolish" extremism. For being convicted of something isn't a bad thing in itself. In fact, we could use a bit more of it around these days.

By the way, in the interest of full disclosure, I'm a '96 BJU graduate. Got a good education, but the institution does have some significant warts and a healthy supply closet full of skeltons.

"Regular" church goers support racial discrimination, and not allowing women to wear pants? No, these are extremists and theocrats.

"What if the reason for not wanting to hire such graduates because the employer is sensitive to the possibility that at-work prosyletizing could create a hostile environment for other employees?
What if the reason is because the employer is an atheist and he doesn't want active Christians working for him?"

I would be curious to see if a Mormon, a Catholic, or an atheist could get a job at Focus on the Family. Somehow I doubt it.

PS I never said *I* hate anyone. I never said we should or shouldn't tolerate BJU either. Toleration as a moral concept is even overrated in some respects, in my book. I care about legalities first. Then we can worry about tolerance. (Straying from the topic a bit...) Like it or not, I think that both gays and fanatical Christians should both be allowed to marry, though perhaps not to each other. :) I wouldn't want to shut down DJU, either, as long as my tax dollars don't go there, and they don't advocate the violent overthrow of the government.

PS For 10 points, which of these is going to hell?
http://www.bju.edu/collegian/index.php?issue=25&content=tb

Bonus round - which of these has a career with FEMA in their future?
http://www.bju.edu/collegian/index.php?issue=20&content=tb

Last!

You all should not comment on something that you know nothing about. BJU is a good a college. There may be a lot of rules that do not make sense to a lot of people but have you ever wondered why laws are passed beacuse some did something stupid and dump and the rules at BJU are put there for a reason. They are not out there and are actually normal. They teach their students to be discplined. Everywhere you go in the world there are rules and you have to follow them so why are you making a big deal about BJU having them. Do you all hinestly have nothing better to do with your time then write these stupid things and bash a school and people that you have never been to or meet. And why is it so bad that a person have convictions and believe in God. And for the pant issue pretty sure must of the girls at Bob Jones where pants when they are at home.

I came across this post because of the interesting title. If any one would actually like to question me about my views, I'd be happy to discuss them with you: contactme@lincolnmullen.com

Thanks.